Issues raised in Q&A session with David Lepper MP
1. Concern was expressed about why there is a lower minimum wage for young
people, especially in those areas where young people start work earlier.
2. Concern was expressed about the current level of the minimum wage. It was
felt that the current amount was not enough to make a difference too many
people as it has only now reached the amount that was specified as Labour Party
policy eight years ago.
3. Concern was expressed about the relationship between the TU movement and
Labour Party. It was felt that the government should respond more to TU
concerns and that Tony Blair's boast that the UK has the most restrictive TU
laws in EU was not helpful.
4. Concern was expressed about top-up fees and whether it would deter working
class students from applying to university.
5. Concern was expressed about the skills shortage in vocational trades. The
Government should encourage trades and give incentives similar to those given
to teachers for people to become plumbers, etc. At the moment these are not
considered sexy jobs.
6. Concern was expressed that the current education system focused on academic
skills/knowledge. It was felt this was to the detriment of practical/technical
skills and these should also be an important aspect of the curriculum for all
students from their first day at school.
7. Concern was expressed about the cost of housing. Would young people be able
to purchase a home given their commitments to repay student loans, make pension
provision, etc.
8. Concern was expressed that TU members were feeling disenchanted. It was
recognised that there were rising expectations but that the government needs to
take action on issues of concern to TUs, not just listen.
9. Concern was expressed about the transferring of housing from local
authorities to private housing companies. It was felt that people were not able
to make a free choice in tenants ballots because of the financial incentives
offered in favour of stock transfer. Need to have a level playing field in
ballots and look at alternative models such as co-operatives.
Workshop 1 - How do we make our communities safer?
Group 1
Q. How do we best tackle the binge drinking culture?
Q. Should businesses like large city centre nightclubs?
It was felt that businesses should look after morning clear up problem, off
licenses should also be held accountable for the mess they create as that's
where lots of young people get alcohol. Other businesses like McDonalds pick
up their own rubbish and nightclubs / pubs / off licenses should be encouraged
to do the same.
The group also noted that the cost of licensing applications was relatively
very cheap when considered alongside the potential cost of clearing up etc.
It was felt that 'binge drinking' is British thing. Families in Europe drink
wine with their meal from an early age so children get used to drinking
sensibly and it not such a 'rebellious' thing to do. Educating children in
homes and schools about how to drink responsibly would help to curb the teenage
binge drinking problem. You only need to look at the situation in the US where
the age limit over drinking alcohol is so strict and the extreme reaction this
encourages amongst young people. This is not a model we should be following.
The problem is also caused by the marketing of alcohol. For example, alcopops,
happy hours, drink promos help create the demand for drinking quickly and
encouraging young people. A change in the licensing laws (ie successful model
in Scotland) would reduce the mass exodus of drunken people onto the streets at
11.30. This would help reduce crime and people could learn to pace their
drinking more.
Popular culture also encourages binge drinking. TV and radio celebrities
endorse the way of life. The statement 'Great night, I got off my face' is
commonplace and there is a perceived direct correlation between the two. All
year DJ's like Sarah Cox going on about great nights out and only at Xmas do
they encourage the message that binge drinking is bad.
It was also felt that there is an over concentration on illegal drugs and that
we need to shift the focus and tackle the problems we have with legal ones.
Q. How can we involve local people in more strategies for dealing?
We have walk on by culture in the UK. People are more mobile (moving house,
job etc.) so communities are less stable than they used to be. In Devon a
parochial culture still exists and as such there is a certain degree of
policing the community themselves. The group was also aware that statements
like this can be too tinged with nostalgia - not all good. Communities can be
very exclusive.
It was suggested that perhaps the price of the permissive and more tolerant
culture we have for example in Brighton is where we've ended up. The role of
trade unions in communities is very important as they involve everyone.
Greater roles for workplace representative and unions activities within
communities would help build this and generate a community feel. By adding
value to a community you can encourage people to care more about it (for
example using unions as a way of bringing people together for learning,
supporting families etc.)
It was also mentioned that although the crime rate is falling the media fosters
the image of unsafe streets. Can you make the media more accountable without
censoring?
We briefly discussed ASBOs and it was felt that although they hurt the pocket
they won't stop behaviour. Initiatives like this also need to be consistently
applied, Local Authorities are not necessarily using them - they are seen as a
clever idea & too gimmicky.
The changes in our criminal justice policy have done little but to help the
prison population double and in doing so help breed criminality. We need to
get out of this vicious circle. There is too much concentration in our
criminal justice policy on punitive measures. The group were disappointed with
the document as it doesn't address all the options. While it may be great for
the Daily Mail, very populist and reactionary, it doesn't do much else. The
packaging of 'tough on crime and the causes of crime' is fantastic, you can't
argue with it and it sells, but the policy should contain more than just spin.
Criminals need to be re-educated in the community to help engender community
spirit and a sense of responsibility. For example, the Maori tradition of
getting offender to meet the victim has been successful. The government need
to look at the options available.
The bottom line is poverty. We need to encourage people that they can work
their way into a different situation.
Group 2
Q. How can we reinforce the responsibilities that individuals? .
It was felt that people were too quick to brand young people hanging around as
anti-social behaviour. It was felt this was not necessarily the case though
recognised that it could easily become anti-social if there were not things for
young people to do. Preventative strategies need to be put in place to engage
with young people and prevent hanging around becoming anti-social behaviour.
It was felt that Citizenship education in schools was potentially a positive
step in promoting rights and responsibilities. However it needs to be taken
seriously by schools if it is too work and not just done as part of PSHE. There
was a concern that those who would benefit from it most would bunk off if it is
not taken seriously.
Parents needed to be actively involved in the setting of rights and
responsibilities. Parenting classes were seen as a potentially way forward
though there was concern as whether a state led approach would be seen as nanny
stateist. It was felt that current policies made it difficult, especially for
single parents. Being encouraged to seek work could make it more difficult for
them to keep tabs on their children's behaviour.
Q. How do we best tackle the binge drinking culture?
There was some debate as to whether we should liberalise alcohol availability
further or regulate its access more.
Generally it was felt that the drinking age should be lowered. It was fairly
easy for sixteen year olds to pass themselves off as eighteen whereas it would
be more difficult for a fourteen year old to pass themselves off as sixteen.
Eighteen adds an illicit excitement to drinking underage which would be removed
if the age was reduced to sixteen.
Parents should be encouraged to educate their children about alcohol and
encourage sensible drinking at home.
Licensing hours should be liberalised and the current hours encourage 11pm/2am
flashpoints when pubs and clubs chuck out. This could reduce young peoples'
likelihood of becoming victims of crime.
Q. What should be the correct balance between the resources we invest in
catching & convicting offenders and what is spent on preventing crimes?
It was felt that policing should be intelligence led and that street policing
is not the best way of tackling crime. Fear o f crime issues can be tackled by
community wardens though there powers are limited. In many areas the police can
be distrusted as they may come from outside the area and not fully understand
the issues locally. Community wardens may have a better understanding of local
communities/issues.
CCTV does not tackle the root cause of the problem and in many cases can led to
crime and anti-social behaviour being redistributed to areas not covered by
CCTV.
Q. For those offences where new Fixed Penalty Notices?
People should be made to pay for the damage/hassle they cause. Paying a fine to
the state breeds resentment towards authority and government and is less likely
to promote good behaviour. Where as paying for the damage done will encourage a
greater sense of community responsibility and pride.
Q. In tackling the problem of drug abuse in the UK
Emphasis should be placed on tackling the demand for drugs. Stemming supply
won't do anything to dampen demand. It will just force up prices and increase
drug related crime.
Better education about drugs and that not all drugs are the same. Some drugs
are less dangerous than others and some legal drugs such as alcohol can be more
dangerous that illegal ones.
Overall it was felt that crime is caused by failings in other aspects of
society such as education. Perhaps tackling these first will be the best policy
for tackling crime.
Workshop 2 - How do we give every child an excellent education?
Group 1
Q. How do we better enforce parental obligations?
Q. How do we encourage schools to become the focal point for education?
It was felt that parents should care if their kids aren't in school, truancy
fines won't make this happen. The initiative also needs to differentiate
between one off offenders and serial offenders. Kids naturally test rules.
Again we need to look at the real problems behind truancy and find out why
children are doing it (for example, there may be problems with attention
deficit disorder and real core behaviour issues).
It was also discussed that giving children different choices at school may make
it more relevant for them. We need to calm the hysteria over academic
excellence and let kids do what they want. Give them a real alternative to
Maths, English etc. by encouraging vocational training at school as an option
that is just as challenging and just as worthwhile.
If someone has a bad experience at school they may think that education is a
waste of time and pass this ethic onto their children. If we encourage the
idea that education is something that can happen throughout life we can change
damaging attitudes. The role of lifelong learning and trade union learner reps
s crucial in helping shift peoples perspective around how education can be.
The UK's skills shortage is everyone's responsibility. The legislation for
learner reps is good and needs to be developed on. Schools can be used after
hours to become a place of community learning no matter what age you are. This
would also help generate a focal point for communities.
Q. As the number of people going to university increases
This group was made up of a mixture of those who have attended university and
those who haven't due to financial concerns.
We need to look at turning vocational courses into degrees and technical
colleges into universities to try and get rid of the stigma attached to certain
courses of study and paths in life. Comprehensives still brag about the number
of pupils they have going to Oxford. Perhaps it would be more relevant and
less damaging to give reports and brag about how many went onto FE/HE
irrespective of vocational or academic study undertaken whilst there.
The elitist view of certain establishments puts off people from poorer
backgrounds as they don't think they'll have anything in common with other
students. This must be tackled as part of the governments policy of
encouraging children from poorer backgrounds into HE.
Alongside these problems the current proposals are pricing working class people
out of going to university and taking their opportunities away. The policy is
confusing and people don't understand what it means. The group felt that there
were lots of sound-bites but no reality of actual cost for potential
applicants. People don't want to appear stupid or embarrassed about
personal/family wealth in trying to find out what the situation is.
Alongside these concerns the group raised the difficulty young people have in
getting onto the housing ladder. Monthly loan repayments will delay this even
further. On top of all other expenses paying back loans is too much.
Group 2
This group was made up of six young people. Three were to start undergraduate
degrees this autumn, two had graduated this year and one was currently an
undergraduate student at university.
Q. How do we ensure our HE system remains a world leader?
Q. As the number of people going to university increases
It was accepted that HE needed more funding.
It was felt that the current finance system of student finance was fair for
students from low income families as they had all/most of their tuition fees
paid by the LEA. However there was some concern for those students from middle
to upper income families whose parents did not pay the fees they had been
assessed to pay, which left the payment with student. In this respect
retrospective payment of fees is preferable to up front fees for these students.
There was a recognition that fear of debt could put some people off of higher
education. The economic benefits of HE are not immediately obvious to many
applicants, especially those who come from families without a tradition of HE
progression or are giving up their existing jobs/careers to return to study
such as mature students.
There was concern about the employment basis for HE progression. What happened
to the idea of education for enjoyment? The levying of fees implies that
education is all about future employment. This emphasis could lead to students
make decisions about what to study based upon possible higher earning potential
rather than the right course for them. This could exacerbate drop out rates as
students sign up for the wrong course.
It was felt decisions about HE courses and institutions should be made on
academic factors and not financial. There were concerns that variability of
tuition fees could lead to people choosing courses/universities based upon cost.
It was felt class was still a factor HE progression with not enough children
from working class families progressing. In order to break down these barriers
efforts should be undertaken to raise the aspirations of young people and their
parents earlier in the education system.
The best way to encourage HE progression amongst working class students was
felt to be the provision of advice and information to students about careers,
HE, etc. and support and encouragement through the application process. Other
schemes such as partnerships between universities and schools, mentoring
schemes and summer schools could also raise working class students'
aspirations. Not all parents' value education so in order to raise parental
aspiration information could be sent out with Child Tax Credit and Child
Benefit letters from the Government.
It was felt that by raising the standard of vocational training to degree level
could raise the status vocational training and help break down the barriers
between the academic and the vocational and raise the status of skilled manual
professions. There were some concerns that this could been perceived as a
'dumbing down' of the traditional academic degree.
Vocational degrees would increase opportunities to live away from home,
increase labour mobility and enable more students to benefit from the broader
benefits of HE.
Many more students would benefit from a year out before going to university.
Doing so would enable students to focus on why they are going to university as
well as increase there sense of responsibility and community. Structured gear
year schemes can be expensive and therefore are the preserve of the middle
classes. In order to increases opportunities for all some sort of affordable
national gap year scheme could be set to enable young people to undertake
voluntary work in the community before starting university.
It was felt that the post-compulsory education system was still geared up
primarily for the needs to 16-21 year olds. This hampered lifelong learning
opportunities and courses were geared up for full time attendance during the
day, during the week. This is not conducive to mature students retraining
whilst still working. There should be greater encouragement to colleges and
universities to offer courses part time in the evenings and at weekends. This
should apply right up to postgraduate level.
Q. How do we best update the national curriculum for 14-19 year olds?
It was felt that creating 14 to 19 education phase would help with staying on
post-16.
Though it was felt the idea of a baccalaureate could deter students from
staying on if they were forced to study a subject(s) they didn't want to as
part of the qualification. They felt the current A levels system gave students
choice and enabled them to focus on the subjects they enjoyed and wanted to
study further.
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